Minutes 13th January 2009

CRYSTAL PALACE & NORWOOD CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

Minutes of Main Meeting, 13 January 2009, Patrick’s Bar, Westow Hill

Those present:

Ray Hall* (New Crystal Palace, chair)
Andrew Parfitt* (Honorary Secretary)
Banny Bachks
Paul Bartholomew
Valerie Bartholomew
Simon Bashford (LB Croydon)
Kevin Carleton-Reeves (transport consultant)
Sarah Dacre* (Amphlett Lissimore)
John Greatrex* (Sainsburys)
Jenny Hall (guest)
Frank Lissimore* (Amphlett Lissimore)
Don Madgwick
Bradley Millington (Upper Norwood Joint Library)
Stan Morris* (Shine Bright)
Rebecca Murray (GHK)
Sue Nagle* (Triangle Traders)
Alan Phibbs (Phibbs Ltd)
Saleh Rahman (First Option Estates)
A Rashit
Harvey Reid
John Rudd
Gavin Rookledge (Rook's Books)
Jonathan Rowlandson (Jonathan Rowlandson Design)
Silke Rudolph* (The Massage Practice)
Tim Sharville (Mango Swiss)
Roger Sorell (proxy for Numidie, Tamnag Thai, Palace News, Rosa’s Café)
Andy Stem (Bambino’s)
Timothy Taylor (Glitter and Twisted)
Jane Arte Watt (JAG Contemporary Design)

* Management Committee

Apologies

Will Ellner (Joanna’s)
Mark McLaughlan* (The White Hart)
Coconut Trading
Il Ponte

1. Introduction

Ray welcomed all to the excellent venue of Patrick’s downstairs bar and meeting area.

1.1. Members and non-members

Ray thanked Silke for her support to Mark as membership secretary. He encouraged all to join the Chamber for an annual subscription of £25. Application forms were available from Silke.

Ray emphasised that only members would be eligible to vote at meetings.


1.2. Conflict of interest

Ray said that because of the conflict of interest arising from his being the promoter of the New Crystal Palace proposal, Andrew Parfitt would chair this item. In the event of a vote, Ray said that he would absent himself from the room.


1.3. Minutes of previous main meeting

The minutes of the 11th November meeting were approved as a fair record.


1.4. South London Business Awards

Ray encouraged those present to consider entering the South London Business Awards. Submissions in 12 categories are invited by 27th February and the awards ceremony will be held at the Crystal Palace Football Ground, Selhurst Park on 20th May.

1.5. Tramlink

Ray said that James Cleverly will be covering Tramlink in his presentation at the 10th February Chamber meeting. He noted that Valerie Shawcross (GLA Member for Lambeth and Southwark) thought that the Tramlink could be brought back into play.


1.6. Election of Vice-Chairs

Ray invited nominations for the two posts of Vice-Chair, who would also replace Will Ellner and Christopher Stewart on the Management Committee. Frank Lissimore and Sue Nagle were proposed and, following a vote, both were elected by a comfortable margin.


2. Main Item: A New Crystal Palace in a renewed Crystal Palace Park - Ray Hall
Chaired by Andrew Parfitt; Minutes taken by Sarah Dacre.

Ray started the presentation by telling us how he has had a vision for building a New Crystal for 12 years now and his vision has developed over this period. Ray is extremely pleased that the Chamber is now up and running and that he is an integral part of the Chamber.

Ray made his position extremely clear in that his business New Crystal Palace Ltd is independent of the Chamber and his aim is to help put Crystal Palace and the Triangle firmly on the Map. Ray stated it was therefore imperative that the Chamber has the freedom to agree/disagree/oppose the bid on its own individual merit.

Over the past 12 years there have been four exhibitions and support for his proposal has been very high. Ray thanked Don, Sue, Andy and his wife Jenny for their unwavering support and shared passion for Crystal Palace and Mark Pender of GVA Grimley for helping his vision in so many ways along with John Greatrex.

The current situation regarding the site is that the London Development Agency has planning approval for the whole park including the top site and been granted an option which runs out at the end of March this year at which point their scheme may well be able to be implemented. The LDA scheme does not include a New Crystal Palace. If the LDA scheme is followed through in its entirety, the New Crystal palace would not come into being. Ray may soon know what is possible.

Ray has a developer who is seriously interested in carrying out the project and who is committed to investing in £400m in another project in South London. If Ray is successful in securing apposition with LB Bromley, he will invite the developer to meet with the Chamber. Ray’s goal the foundation will be laid by Prince Charles, on the 30th November 2011 (when it will be the 75th Anniversary of the burning down of the original Crystal Palace) and that it will rise during the Olympic year. In June 2014 the New Crystal Palace may then have a Royal opening.

The New Crystal Palace is based on the module and detail of the design of the 1851 and 1854 predecessors, but is also itself. It will therefore be a 3rd generation and hence New Crystal Palace. Like its forebears it will host facilities for exhibitions, conferences, social events including performing arts & a hotel, along with state-of-the-art sports facilities. It will be a showcase for business and culture focussed on South London.

The goal is that the New Crystal Palace will generate its own electricity using sustainable technologies with the potential of exporting energy as well.

The East London Line will place Crystal Place on London’s tube map and is due to open in 2010. New Crystal Palace Ltd would treat with a proposed New Crystal Palace Charitable Trust that may own the site: it’s purpose would be to channel benefit back into the park as an amenity for the local and broader community. The cost of the project is estimated at £250m. It would require no public funds.

Ray then showed us his proposals via a PowerPoint presentation and talked through the visual presentation. Some of the pointed explained are as follows:

• There would be a model train running within the park and this would enable access to the entire park and make all areas far more accessible.
• The retaining walls of the Italian Terrace would be restored and re-in forced. Beneath its surface would be an underground and hence hidden parking facility for up to 1000 cars and a delivery area for the New Crystal Palace. The car park could serve the whole park enabling current ground car parks to be removed. The top of the Italian Terrace would be grassed
• Vehicles would access from Anerley Hill and egress into the double roundabout at the junction of Crystal Palace Parade and Westwood Hill.
• There would be a large public gathering public area & promenade in front of the Italian terrace with the potential for an amphitheatre as well.
• There could be two athletic tracks along with tennis courts on the Italian Terrace with grassed steps set in the hillside that could be used for spectator viewing.
• The Victorian subway under Crystal Palace Parade could be reused and link the New Crystal Palace to the Crystal Palace Triangle.
• There could be an indoor Olympic size swimming pool and high diving pool as well the potential for an ice-skating rink outside.
• Shallow water canals could demark where the original 1854 building was & either side of the New Crystal Palace will be promenades with trees to offer shade. Crystal Palace Parade could come alive and be a substantial destination once again.
• The New Crystal Palace will replicate the generic shape of its forebears but would have a central barrel along its full length and a barrel vaulted transept across its width on the central axis of the Park. Escalators would rise to the top of the new palace to a Botanical Gardens and a living butterfly museum. There could be a Children’s World and a themed destination called The Lost World referencing the dinosaurs in the Park.
• The potential for a ski slope inside/outside would be explored.

There would be four levels to the Palace:

• An upper level would be a four-star hotel, with 256 bedrooms, offering substantial employment and skill based opportunities for local (especially young) people.
• Overall well in excess of 1,000 could be generated;
• There would be a level dedicated to conference facilities & to host exhibitions;
• Four courts are planned, following the precedent of the former Crystal Palaces, with substantial retail as well as restaurants and leisure activities;
• And finally the top level would offer views over South London and an art gallery provision.
• This facility would complement a sculpture Garden outside the New Crystal Palace and a new Market Square.
• Ray’s master plan for the Park enabled an additional 10% of green space to be added.

The photovoltaic glass enveloping the building – and other sustainable technologies - could generate electricity for the Palace. BP Solar calculated that enough electricity could be generated to serve the equivalent of up to 10,000 homes. The rainwater gathered by the New Crystal Palace could be re-cycled and used within the building and the Park. It could also be used as part of a cooling system and serve a water wall on the Park side of the building - which can be in turn used to project images onto.

This concluded Ray’s presentation and Andrew as acting chair thanked Ray & opened the floor up to questions for Ray:

“How could this proposal benefit the Triangle & local businesses?”

Ray’s response was that it would increase footfall into the Crystal Palace area enabling the district centre to grow as customer spend would be brought into and retained. The New Crystal Palace would put South London and the Crystal Palace area firmly on London and the UK/world stage. The opportunity for local businesses would be enormous – and especially if the total mix of retail, restaurant, leisure and other facility was conceived as complementary parts of one enlarged destination, capitalizing on the shared Crystal Palace brand. When people come to Crystal Palace the question is where is it? That will be a question no longer asked!

The New Crystal Palace could enable the regeneration of the inner parts of five boroughs in South London and greatly enhance the prosperity of other district centres enhancing areas such as Penge & Anerley. At the moment so much spend is going out of the area - this can be radically changed if we get the mix of uses right. The diversity of the area & its shops & restaurants and the diversity of our visitors can be capitalised on.

Aren’t the sports stadium & facilities listed & therefore protected?

Ray confirmed that yes the sports facilities are listed, and hence there is the prospect that they will remain at least until after the 2012 Olympic Games, when a fresh discussion may be possible concerning the role of what is currently our National Sports Centre. There have been initial discussions with English Heritage on exploring a change. If the sports centre did indeed stay then the Green space would be increased by say 5% and not 10%.


Is this a regeneration of the entire park or just the top site?

The response was that the park is being renewed from the bottom up & that 40% has already been done. The remaining 60% is open for dialogue with London Development Agency & Bromley Borough Council. Ray’s goal is a complete transformation of the whole Park, working with the improvements already made.

Is there a plan to link Crystal Palace Parade & the Triangle with the park?

The original subway under the parade & park could certainly be opened up & this is very much a discussion that has to be had. Ray said it is imperative that Crystal Palace is a destination not a through route and therefore that the Triangle, the Parade, the Park and the New Crystal Palace work together as one.


The original Crystal Palace was at times a white elephant. Could South London truly support such a large project?

Ray agreed that a new Crystal Palace would not have been possible 10-15 years ago as South London was such a transient area. But with 3.5m people in South London and with the East London Line opening, it has the financial substance of a major city and will be significantly more accessible. This adds even greater reason for the Tramlink to come to Crystal Palace. An example of this kind of successful development was the Tate Modern on the South Bank.

The New Crystal Palace would also be highly flexible in its design enabling it to respond to market changes and remain relevant.


What is the main thrust of the commercial side of the development?

A lot of talking needs to be done about this: because there is the need for substantial high-quality retail that has to be seen to complement and enhance the existing retail in the Triangle.


Are the O2 & Battersea Power station not competitors?

The O2 has put East London on the map but this is a South London destination and showcase. There is no park/outdoor facilities at the O2. Mention of 02 does demonstrate that it is imperative that any kind of development is private sector lead with public sector as a facilitator to avoid the pitfalls of the Dome prior to it becoming 02. A New Crystal Palace will be in the destination market place and Ray was confident that its uniqueness and brand strength will enable success.


There were no further questions and Andrew asked that Ray leave the room for a show of hands as to whether members of the Chamber supported the New Crystal Palace proposals in principle. Members vote 25 for & 1 against with no abstentions. There was therefore a virtually unanimous majority for the proposal in principle & Ray was asked to come back & be presented with the findings.


3. Future Main Meetings

Ray returned to the role as chair and said that the following main meetings of the Chamber had been arranged:

. 10 February: James Cleverly (GLA Member for Bromley and Bexley): My vision for London and Crystal Palace

. 10 March: Stephen Carr (Leader of LB Bromley): My vision for Bromley and Crystal Palace

. 14 April: Five Minutes of Fame – nine or ten local businesses speak forth (provisional)

. 12 May: Promoting Crystal Palace on the South London, London and world stage (provisional)

. 9 June: Preparing for the Crystal Palace Winter Festival (provisional)¬

Ray said that Mayor Boris Johnson had been invited to speak in the autumn of 2009 or spring of 2010.

He invited other ideas for the main meetings for the Management Committee, which meets monthly, to consider.


4. Any Other Business

Crystal Palace June Festival: John Greatrex said that on Friday 30th January, at 7.30 pm in the Library, he would be setting out the outlines of his ideas for a June festival, which he would envisage as being the first of an annual series of events. He invited all to attend.


5. Date of Next Main Meeting

Tuesday 10th February, 6.45pm: location to be confirmed.