Minutes 14th July 2009

CRYSTAL PALACE & NORWOOD CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
Minutes of Main Meeting, 14th July 2009, Patrick’s Bar, 76 Westow Hill
Those present:
Ray Hall* (New Crystal Palace, Chair)
Andrew Parfitt* (Honorary Secretary)
Ramesh Appadoo (Grand Bay)
Matt Ball (Electron Repro Ltd)
Ian Barrington (guest, Penge Traders Association)
Judy Barrington (guest, Penge Trades Association)
Paul Bartholomew (Vien)
Vivienne Bartholomew (Vien)
Hannah Bougen* (Full Spectrum Integration)
Kevin Carleton-Reeves (transport consultant)
Sarah Dacre* (Amphlett Lissimore)
Linda Duffy (guest)
George Filbey* (Instrument and Gauge Engineering and Cllr, LB Croydon)
Efisio Fronteddu (Mediterranea)
Peter George (GO Contaminated Land Solutions)
John Greatrex* (Sainsbury’s)
Jerry Green (Haynes Lane Market)
Stephen Jopson (Synergy)
Frank Lissimore* (Amphlett Lissimore)
Don Madgwick (Abbazappa Records)
Kevin Monk (MangoSwiss)
Stan Morris* (Shinebright)
Sue Nagle* (Bambinos)
Merle Nestfield (The Spirited Palace)
Stuart Packer (voiceover artist)
Dinesh Patel (Budgens)
Saleh Rahman (First Option)
Jonathan Rowlandson (Jonathan Rowlandson Design)
Yogi Shah (Macdonalds Discount)
Catherine Shaw (Allbone and Trimit)
Andy Stem (Bambino’s)
Paul Thompson (Indigo Blue)
Joan Vernette (Friends Hair & Beauty)

* Management Committee
Apologies
Matt Atkinson (Full Spectrum Integration)
Simon Bashford (guest, LB Croydon)
Jason Hadden (guest, Parliamentary Candidate for Croydon North)
Charles Kejeh (De-Charles Resources)
Gavin Rookledge (Rook’s Books)
Silke Rudolph* (The Massage Practice)
Tim Sharville (Mango Swiss)


1.0. Introduction
Ray Hall welcomed all and thanked Patrick’s for agreeing to host the meeting. He extended a particularly warm welcome to Ian and Judy Barrington from the Penge Traders’ Association, whom he had met through Cllr John Getgood (LB Bromley) at a meeting of the Salvation Army.

1.1. Minutes of Previous Meeting

The minutes of the 2nd June meeting had been received by all members and were approved as a fair record.

1.2. Matters Arising

Crystal Palace Festivals: Andy Stem said that the Festival on 25th July would be the biggest so far. It would include a craft fair, several markets, a talent contest and a number of well-known bands.

East London Line: Kevin Carleton-Reeves gave an update on the East London Line which is planned to open in June 2010. There is the opportunity to have advertising on the carriages, and Ray noted how exciting it will be to have Crystal Palace on the tube map, as a destination.

New Crystal Palace: Ray said that senior figures in Bromley and Croydon councils were very supportive of his proposals. He together with Sue Nagle, Hannah Bougen and Mark Pender, would shortly be meeting senior officials from Lambeth council to talk about the potential for the business community within the context of the New Crystal Palace.

2.0. Five Minutes of Fame

2.1. Catherine Shaw (Allbone and Trimit)
http://www.allboneandtrimit.co.uk/

Catherine said that she has been the inspiration behind Allbone and Trimit, designers of theatrical costumes here and in Australia. Now her main business is for weddings. She works on the basis that dresses have a life, and she is very keen to use the very best fabrics, allowing them to be worn time and again. Each item is specially made for somebody and is unique.

With her customers, Catherine gathers information through consultation, allowing decisions on the design and choice of fabric. Then she makes four or five fittings, initially with calico, then mounted on organza. Wherever possible she ensures that her materials are ethically sourced and environmentally sound.

Her next venture will be with a friend who is a bespoke tailor. She will be looking at work and leisure clothes that are well made and with a personal quality.

She employs local labourers to help at her premises in Coopers Yard. Each year she has two open studio weekends: the next will be in October/November, with mulled wine.
Andy complemented Catherine on the dresses she had made recently for the wedding of a couple of his friends. Ray noted how, when planning big events, we should look to people like Catherine to ensure they are as environmentally sustainable as possible.

2.2. Stan Morris (Shinebright)

Stan said that the tools of his trade comprised a bucket, water, a bit of fairy liquid and two pairs of ladders. He was born 63 years ago in the Oval, one of seven children. A great influence on his teenage years was Alan Griffiths, a neighbour and friend.

In his early 20s, Stan joined the army, wanting to be a “man of character” by doing good things. He is happy to have served his country. For many years since he has been a window-cleaner. His customers include 110 businesses in the Triangle, nearly half the total premises.

Stan said how he is lucky to have a lovely wife, Christine, to whom he has been married for 36 years, and three wonderful sons. His nicknames include “Stan the Man” and “The Mouth of the Palace”.

Sue led a round of applause for Stan; all were moved by how he spoke from his heart about his life and family. Ray also thanked Stan, his wife and family for making the sandwiches for this evening’s meeting.

2.3. Stuart Packer (voiceover artist)
http://www.stuartpacker.co.uk/

Raised in Somerset, Stuart became a civil engineer, where he developed the ability to say long words. At the age of 26, he decided to become more creative and attended drama school and from 1991 became an actor, developing a great appreciation of audiences. Then in 2003 he became a voice-over artist, providing voices for radio, television and across the media. From Antenna Studios, his recordings are used across the world. He has also done work in Crystal Palace for local businesses such as MangoSwiss.

All complemented Stuart on an entertaining and fascinating presentation.

2.4. Linda Duffy (guest)
http://www.linda-duffy.com/index.html

Linda has been collecting stories about Crystal Palace for an arts project, and the aim is to put some of them into a small booklet. For this area is so rich in stories, with a strong sense of community.

Ray thanked Linda for contributing to the rich variety of Crystal Palace, and ensuring that different voices are heard and preserved.

2.5. Stephen Jopson (Synergy)
http://www.synergyllp.com/members.html

Stephen is a quantity surveyor and senior partner in Synergy, a firm of construction and property consultants. He first met Ray five years ago, and has been appointed to help the design team of the New Crystal Palace. With many peaks and troughs over the past five years, it is an enormous task to cost the materials for such a fascinating scheme. He is totally committed to the success of the New Crystal Palace and making it happen. The aim is to have a totally flexible design, centred around the use of glass, in a way which is sustainable for the environment and the community.

Sue said how wonderful it is to learn of this vision. Ray thanked Stephen warmly for all his help in keeping the project going and in making it credible.

2.6. Andrew Parfitt (Honorary Secretary)
(With many thanks to Sarah Dacre for making an initial note of this item)

Andrew’s family came from Croydon, but when he was young his parents moved to Cheltenham. Eventually, he came back to London, living for several years in Kings Cross, where he thoroughly enjoyed his time.

The time came to move on again and Andrew wasn’t sure where to go. It needed to be accessible and maybe a little more leafy than Kings Cross. A friend mentioned Crystal Palace and whilst Andrew knew of Crystal Palace Football Club and about the masts he had absolutely no idea about the area back then in 2001.

Andrew visited Crystal Palace and was “bowled over” in pleasant surprise at its delights. He rented a flat off Gipsy Hill and discovered the great secrets of South East London’s open spaces, shops and restaurants. He also discovered something else in Crystal Palace: to his joy he fell in love with his near neighbour Annabel and now, eight years on, their love is still as strong and they live “just across the hill”.

Andrew is a senior economist in the Whitehall civil service. In 2006, when he heard the role of minute-taker for the Chamber was up for grabs, he volunteered. He wanted to draw on his professional experience and give something back to the community. Over time, Andrew has become increasingly involved with the Chamber’s management. There have been many changes, and Andrew is relishing in the transformation of the Chamber under Ray.

Andrew has developed a relationship with Ray that is in some ways similar to that of an official and a Minister. He has absolute respect for Ray and the direction in which he is taking the chamber, whilst at all times he seeks to remain neutral, professional and committed to his role as minute taker.

3.0. Main Item: Sue Nagle, “Update on What Businesses Want for Crystal Palace”

Sue gave the following speech:

Well if there were ever any doubts as to the enthusiasm and passion felt for the future of the area by those who work and trade here, they were dispelled at our first meeting of the business concern process on the 6th May. At the start time of the meeting we were rather disappointed by the low turn-out but come 7pm we were rushing to get more chairs.

We had asked people to take part in probably the most important process in the Triangle for years. We told our members of the interest presently focussed on the area and the need to define what we want, what we need and what we want Crystal Palace to be and be perceived as.

Whenever an organisation decides to start such a process, there is always the risk of the ‘who do they think they are’ syndrome but we saw no hint of that thinking. What we found was a desire to move forward in a united and helpful way.

In fact the way people reacted and interacted during the first meeting was incredibly encouraging and if the passion and enthusiasm and the same high level of agreement of those who were there continues, then we are certain that we will end up with a master plan for the area that our Chairman will be able to take forward and introduce to those who can bring it into being.

I will just summarise some of the findings from the meeting and actions that can result from it.
1) I don’t think there were any surprises in the responses but it was interesting that when listing the positives, it seemed that we were living in heaven itself.
2) The only threats to our paradise were caused by the one way system and crime. As crime seems to be prevalent in and around all cities, the OWS was definitely public enemy no 1.
3) There is a need for further discussion and investigation into the working of the system, whether more parking could be provided and how to make the system safer for pedestrians. There was a general feeling that it is hard to teach our children how to cross as the crossing lights are often on red at the same time as the lights are tempting the children to cross when the lights say not to..
4) There was general agreement that Crystal Palace has a lot going for it.
5) When talking about successes, the people came a strong first. – the tenacious traders, the artisans, the musicians, the eccentrics and assorted others. The people have a pride and passion that binds the community noticeably together.
6) The people were closely followed by the park and the grand heritage it evokes. I don’t think any of us have walked through the park and not felt the past under our feet and in our minds.
7) There was a general affection for the markets, the festivals with the live music, the street stalls, the Library and the diversity of the restaurants.
8) Then there are the views, the fresh air and the good transport links. We all felt lucky to have two local magazines and a wonderful chat forum in Virtual Norwood. Interestingly nobody listed the museum as a success and we need to investigate how to make the museum better and more visible along with other ways of promoting the heritage of the area.
9) This brought us naturally onto how to attract more customers to the area. It was recognised that the decline of the district trading centre had started before the credit crunch with the introduction of the one way system not tipping us over the edge as much as picking us up screaming and throwing us over the edge. The town centre manager, Sharon Baldwin, informed us of an idea to fill empty shops with local artwork and although we appreciate all the work that Sharon has done for us, members felt that although measures such as this would undoubtedly help, they were not going to reverse the decline. We needed to entice more customers and the only thing that would do that would be an attraction but not an attraction that could be found in any number of other towns. Tim Sharville said quite rightly that it had to be unique to Crystal Palace. It should build on our heritage and take full advantage of the most important selling point, the name Crystal Palace. It should link so strongly to the town that its success was our success and its customers were our customers. With the Chamber’s stated support for the new Crystal Palace, there is a need to take the discussion further and to explore how such a building could link with the town so that the Palace, the town and the Park work as one destination offering benefit to all who work and live here.
10) When members were asked what they wanted Crystal Palace’s image to be, a very interesting thing occurred. People were extremely diverse in their opinions. Some placed importance on its musical focus, some its heritage, others loved the interesting little shops, its eating places, etc. Basically the diversity of the suggestions has begun to define the image so the first word to go into the pot must be Diversity. We want Crystal Palace to carry on the legacy of THE Crystal Palace. We want it to be international, encompassing all ages and talents, vibrant, proud, sophisticated and quirky at the same time. Members weren’t saying no to chain stores but would want to be selective. (HMV and M&S were mentioned as stores that might not clash with existing traders).
11) There was fairly unanimous agreement that the OWS needs sorting out. It is dangerous and completely unsatisfactory. The traffic travels around the Triangle at a dangerous speed and this, together with the phasing of the lights, produces a very hostile environment for pedestrians. If the council believed that we would get used to the one way system they were wrong. The absolute hatred that those who live and work here feel for the OWS is probably even stronger now than when it was introduced. Traders who have struggled to woo their customers back have had to watch as they are given tickets or look on helplessly as they drove past unable to find a parking space. That’s of course if they can get their goods delivered in the first place. It is also impossible to teach children how to cross as when the crossing light is at red for them, the traffic has in fact stopped. It is extremely hard to survive as a trader in Crystal Palace now and, if proper parking is not found, it is hard to see the situation changing. The strength of opposition to the One Way System is as strong as ever and we need to investigate the possibility of diagonal parking along the Parade; using the bus lane between rush hours, a car park as part of a new Crystal Palace on the top site, sites in the town for a car park and reverting to a two- way system.
12) I think the most surprising thing for me that night was this. As I said earlier, the word that cropped up most often when describing Crystal Palace was diversity and yet on that night we had sixty odd traders in the room singing in unison. We were united even in our opposition.
13) I believe that that is because we are informed and because our love of the area and our determination to make it work allows us, in spite of all the odds, to look forward and invest in a vision for the future that we are all going to share. We all know that we have one of the greatest names in the world at our disposal and we know that with the help of all our Gods we can make it work for us. Some are hanging by threads but we are all still here. We know that Crystal Palace could be special – world class and we want to be part of it.
Let me leave you with one of the more amusing findings of the night. We found out that you can’t buy socks or knickers in the Triangle if you like your socks black and your knickers with the undercarriage intact...
There was general support for the points made by Sue. In the follow-up discussion, additional points included:
A two-way system could allow for additional parking if lorries and buses were still subject to a one-way system, properly policed;
The lack of pedestrian crossings in Church Road was a key concern, but all the junctions were dangerous for pedestrians;
The roundabout at the top of Anerley Hill worked much better than the current traffic lights;
Ray, George and Kevin were exploring improvements to the pedestrian and traffic environment in the Triangle;
For independent shops, it is crucial for people to be able to stop and park, whether as customers or to make deliveries;

Ray said that Mike Fisher, the Leader of Croydon Council commented on a recent visit that Crystal Palace feels now much more of a positive place. Mike is open to suggestions on how the traffic and parking problems could be resolved. Ray will follow up with him, and a future meeting of the Chamber will focus on transport issues.

In conclusion, Ray said that we as the Chamber are the people to set the agenda. We are much better placed than we have been in the past, and we should look to the future with optimism.

5.0. Dates of Next Main Meetings

22nd September - guest speaker, Steve O'Connell, GLA member for Croydon & Sutton
29th September - Annual General Meeting

The venues will be confirmed in due course.